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MY TRANSCRIPT (and my emphasis)
Tucker Carlson:
As we opened tonight, there is news reporting out of Ukraine that there is some sort of fire-fight over the skies of the capital city, Kiev, planes reportedly being shot down. Is that true? Where is all of this headed? We’re going to take that breaking news to Doug Macgregor. He is a former Senior Adviser to the Secretary of Defence and retired Army Colonel who has seen combat, knows its costs and has gained wisdom from it. Doug Macgregor, thanks so much for joining us tonight. How do you assess what little we know about this report and others like it coming in from Ukraine?
Colonel Douglas Macgregor:
Oh, well, first, let me say God bless Arkansas and Bryce Mitchell. He’s got it right.
We’re in a very dangerous position right now. We have a President of the United States who wants Ukrainian pilots to come to Poland, climb into fighter jets on the ground in Poland and then fly them into Ukraine to join the fight against the Russians.
He made a very good decision about the no-fly zone. He needs to reverse this decision immediately. This is the first decisive step across the line in to what could make us a co-belligerent in the war in Ukraine.
Moscow will not take this lightly. They have exercised great restraint towards us, even though we have continued to pile great quantities of military equipment into the people that they are fighting. But this is a step too far.
And there are a whole range of responses from tactical ballistic missiles and cruise missiles to destroy all the airports and all the airfields in Poland, or, frankly, anywhere else in Europe where we have US aircraft, potentially all the way up to a nuclear strike.
The good news is that Putin will not launch a nuclear strike unless we use one. And I can’t imagine the President doing that. But nevertheless, it’s a danger. And this seems to escape everybody’s attention.
The other point that’s very important about the Russians. For the Russians, this is an existential question. They will not allow Ukraine to join NATO or any other alliance that is aimed at Russia. They want a non-aligned, neutral Ukraine. That is the first condition and it is one that we should accept.
We should be de-escalating this, not escalating it – that’s very important.
As far as what the Ukrainians have to say, we should treat whatever we hear right now with a grain of salt. You cannot know with absolute precision based upon my experience what is happening on the battlefield unless you are there. And we’ll know a lot when this is over. But right now, we should be very careful to assume that much of what we’re hearing from both sides may not be accurate.
Tucker Carlson:
Can you just sum up the extent you understand what the mission here is? I mean: I think many people would be willing to take some measure of risk on behalf of this country if they understood what the plan was. The plan seems to be to prolong the fighting in Ukraine to what end? Exactly, I mean: I honestly don’t understand it, do you?
Colonel Douglas Macgregor:
Well, it’s a damn good question and it is one that is worth answering. I do think the plan is to prolong the fighting on the assumption that, over time, the Russians can be driven out of Ukraine. And if the Russian army cannot be driven out, which I think many people realise is not going to happen, then the plan is to complete the destruction of Ukraine by turning it into a quasi-Afghanistan. That also is not going to happen.
These things won’t happen because the Europeans will not go along. The Germans have already made it very clear that they are going to continue to buy energy and food from Russia; so will other European states. The sanctions, as you rightly point out, will do a lot of damage to us; they’re not going to make much difference to Russia.
China will stand with Russia. It knows it has to. Russia has an abundance of food and energy. China will take it all. Russia will not suffer as a result of our sanctions. In fact, it may break down the financial system that we have set up to punish everyone in the world we don’t like.
Tucker Carlson:
It’s just what a tragedy to see all the people of goodwill I know personally, a lot of conservatives who are supporting this stuff don’t understand how malicious the intent is and don’t understand how destructive the effect on our country is. And I appreciate your being brave enough in the face of scurrilous attacks from people like Liz Cheney, to tell the truth. I mean it. Thank you, Doug Macgregor.
Colonel Douglas Macgregor:
Sure.
As we opened tonight, there is news reporting out of Ukraine that there is some sort of fire-fight over the skies of the capital city, Kiev, planes reportedly being shot down. Is that true? Where is all of this headed? We’re going to take that breaking news to Doug Macgregor. He is a former Senior Adviser to the Secretary of Defence and retired Army Colonel who has seen combat, knows its costs and has gained wisdom from it. Doug Macgregor, thanks so much for joining us tonight. How do you assess what little we know about this report and others like it coming in from Ukraine?
Colonel Douglas Macgregor:
Oh, well, first, let me say God bless Arkansas and Bryce Mitchell. He’s got it right.
We’re in a very dangerous position right now. We have a President of the United States who wants Ukrainian pilots to come to Poland, climb into fighter jets on the ground in Poland and then fly them into Ukraine to join the fight against the Russians.
He made a very good decision about the no-fly zone. He needs to reverse this decision immediately. This is the first decisive step across the line in to what could make us a co-belligerent in the war in Ukraine.
Moscow will not take this lightly. They have exercised great restraint towards us, even though we have continued to pile great quantities of military equipment into the people that they are fighting. But this is a step too far.
And there are a whole range of responses from tactical ballistic missiles and cruise missiles to destroy all the airports and all the airfields in Poland, or, frankly, anywhere else in Europe where we have US aircraft, potentially all the way up to a nuclear strike.
The good news is that Putin will not launch a nuclear strike unless we use one. And I can’t imagine the President doing that. But nevertheless, it’s a danger. And this seems to escape everybody’s attention.
The other point that’s very important about the Russians. For the Russians, this is an existential question. They will not allow Ukraine to join NATO or any other alliance that is aimed at Russia. They want a non-aligned, neutral Ukraine. That is the first condition and it is one that we should accept.
We should be de-escalating this, not escalating it – that’s very important.
As far as what the Ukrainians have to say, we should treat whatever we hear right now with a grain of salt. You cannot know with absolute precision based upon my experience what is happening on the battlefield unless you are there. And we’ll know a lot when this is over. But right now, we should be very careful to assume that much of what we’re hearing from both sides may not be accurate.
Tucker Carlson:
Can you just sum up the extent you understand what the mission here is? I mean: I think many people would be willing to take some measure of risk on behalf of this country if they understood what the plan was. The plan seems to be to prolong the fighting in Ukraine to what end? Exactly, I mean: I honestly don’t understand it, do you?
Colonel Douglas Macgregor:
Well, it’s a damn good question and it is one that is worth answering. I do think the plan is to prolong the fighting on the assumption that, over time, the Russians can be driven out of Ukraine. And if the Russian army cannot be driven out, which I think many people realise is not going to happen, then the plan is to complete the destruction of Ukraine by turning it into a quasi-Afghanistan. That also is not going to happen.
These things won’t happen because the Europeans will not go along. The Germans have already made it very clear that they are going to continue to buy energy and food from Russia; so will other European states. The sanctions, as you rightly point out, will do a lot of damage to us; they’re not going to make much difference to Russia.
China will stand with Russia. It knows it has to. Russia has an abundance of food and energy. China will take it all. Russia will not suffer as a result of our sanctions. In fact, it may break down the financial system that we have set up to punish everyone in the world we don’t like.
Tucker Carlson:
It’s just what a tragedy to see all the people of goodwill I know personally, a lot of conservatives who are supporting this stuff don’t understand how malicious the intent is and don’t understand how destructive the effect on our country is. And I appreciate your being brave enough in the face of scurrilous attacks from people like Liz Cheney, to tell the truth. I mean it. Thank you, Doug Macgregor.
Colonel Douglas Macgregor:
Sure.
Lausanne, the above
was published on the ninth day of
the third month of the year two
thousand and twenty-two.
